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Re: Archive Mode On for Read Only DB

Michael Möller

2004-03-06

Replies:
1) Yes
2) yes
 and you take two backups of the R/O DB that has never been anything else than R/O (first and last step in your list) in that I assume nothing happens (apart from the DB being R/O open to all) as the year passes?

M-square
(Michael Möller, Miracle)

Gene Sais wrote:

 You make some good points, as well as others on the list.  Just wanted to thank those who took the time out to answer what appears to be an obvious answer :-). Michael - One question, When you say cold, do you mean db shutdown (offline) or do you mean its ok to backup a read only db using OS utilities, i.e. while db is open read only?  I usually refer to cold (offline) as db shutdown.  To help clarify, I have listed the general process:Annual Process:?-------------------* DB open read only (not tbs).* Backup DB using OS utilities/TSM while DB is open read only.* Change DB to read write.* Load new data/images.* Change DB to read only.* Backup DB using OS utilities/TSM while DB is open read only.  I guess I am looking for confirmation on: 1) Backup Read Only DB while it is Open is OK.2) Archive Log mode is no real benefit to a Read Only DB. Thanks,Gene 
>>> m2@email.dk 3/4/2004 3:41:05 PM >>>
There are a few things one can NOT do when the DB is in NOArchiveLog, for
example take a tablespace offline without a checkpoint (OFFLINE IMMEDIATE).
The fake recovery trick is also dependent on Archivelog mode.

Again, considering that the DB is read only (and it is allowed to do the ALTER
DATABASE OPEN READ ONLY that hasnt been/seen any Standby stuff - tested on 92,
and it is in my 816 docs onwards) then you cant switch logfiles (ORA-16000).
If I crash a DB (shutdown abort) in READ ONLY mode there is no recovery during
the next startup. That proves you can take a "cold" backup of a READ ONLY DB
without fear.

The long and short of it - IMHO - drop the archive log mode, drop the backups
and do one (OK, two copies if you really want to) simple cold backup after you
have loaded fresh data and are back in READ ONLY mode.

Still, its only my opinion - its your job/data, Gene.

Michael Möller, Miracle

Carel-Jan Engel wrote:

> As far is I know and can think of, there is no added value. But, to speak
> with Sir Jonathan: Test!
>
> The question is: does archive log mode do more than archiving logfiles
> whenever a log switch is performed?
>
> Regards, Carel-Jan
>
> ===
> If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
> ===
>
> > Thanks.  I would not be applying archives to recover a read only
> > database, since I would not have any.  But does archive log mode add any
> > other value to recovering a read-only db?
> >
> >>>> cjpengel.dbalert@xs4all.nl 3/4/2004 8:37:45 AM >>>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > No, I didn't mistunderstand your question. However, apparently I
> > didn't
> > make my point very clear. What I tried to point out is that, when an
> > active R/W database can be recovered from an 'open backup', a R/O
> > database
> > won't be a problem. When no log-switches occur, archive log mode won't
> > add
> > too much to your recoverability. Which archives do you want to apply to
> > a
> > R/O database?
> >
> > Regards, Carel-Jan
> >
> > ===
> > If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
> > ===
> >
> >
> >> Carel-Jan - Thanks for your email, but I think you misunderstood my
> >> question :).  I would never backup an open read write database and
> >> assume its good (i.e. w/out altering tbs begin backup, etc.).
> >>
> >> My question was: I am backing up a open READ ONLY database (using
> > alter
> >> database open read only, not by tbs) and questioning if archive log
> > mode
> >>  turned on could benefit me?  From some responses, it seems there is
> > no
> >> need to have archive mode turned on for a read only database.
> > Thanks
> >> for Connor's link, good stuff.
> >> Gene
> >>
> >>>>> cjpengel.dbalert@xs4all.nl 3/3/2004 4:16:49 PM >>>
> >>
> >> At 06:18 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
> >> Gene - Perhaps someone on the list has directly tried this.
> >> Yes, I have. It's a war story with a happy ending. Last October I
> > was
> >> called in with a custome for one day of consultancy, discussing a
> >> backup/restore strategy (I prefer to create a restore/backup
> > strategy)
> >> for a DWH they were going to setup for a customer of them.
> >> So far, so good. The delivery day was somewhere at the beginning of
> >> this year, but got postponed to Feb 1st.
> >>
> >> Jan 29th I received a phone call. They accidently dropped a 300
> > million
> >> row facttable. No worries I said, you have implemented the backup
> >> strategy we discussed in October, haven't you?. 'No, we haven't, the
> >> system isn't production yet' they answered sadly. The only thing we
> > have
> >> is a tar backup of an open database, created last Sunday. I
> > discussed
> >> the possibilities to do the restore, but somehow they didn't try and
> >> recovered otherwise.
> >>
> >> Wednesday Feb. 18 the phone rang: 'We were testing a database reorg
> > and
> >> now we've accidently dropped a multi-multi-GIG tablespace issuing
> > 'Drop
> >> tablespace <TS> including contents and datafiles;' After issuing the
> >> command we discovered we were connected to the production schema ISO
> > the
> >> test schema'. No worries I said, this time you have enabled your
> >> backup'. He responded: '.............' (silence). 'OK, that silence
> >> lasts to long, what do you have'. There was a backup of an open
> >> database, created at Monday, while the database was rebuilding
> > indexes.
> >> There were several logswitches whilst the backup bas made. To mak
> > things
> >> even worse they created the problem at Tuseday and started fiddling
> >> around with the remains of the database without first making a proper
> > (I
> >> would suggest physical, i.e. dd-backup). It is all on Sun Slowaris
> > with
> >> Mirrored DAS. They called me in, and we worked two nights on the
> >> subject. First night was simulating the whole situation with backing
> > up
> >> an open index building database, do some more work, and drop the
> >> tablespace.
> >>
> >> I had some phonecalls with Peter Gram and Johannes Djernaes from
> >> Miracle. These Miracle-full guys are amazing at this.What we planned
> > and
> >> did was this:
> >>
> >> Backup everything that was left ot a separate area on disk. Free up
> >> enough space to hold the SYSTEM,
> >> UNDO, TOOLS and dropped tablespace.
> >> Restore the mentioned tablespaces from the Monday tape with the open
> >> backup. We were lucky: there was a controlfile more recent than the
> >> datafiles of these tablespace on the tape Startup mount the database
> >> ALTER DATABASE DATAFILE # OFFLINE for all unrestored datafiles
> > RECOVER
> >> DATAFILE # for all restored datafiles ALTER DATABSE OPEN. This
> > worked,
> >> and now this tablespace was available again. After some struggling
> > with
> >> constraints/indexes causing the tablespace not to be selfcontained
> > the
> >> tablespace was exported using
> > the transportable tablespace
> > feautures.
> >>
> >> Next steps were: Backup the transported tablespace to another disk
> >> Restore all datafiles/controlfiles/redologfiles that were backupped
> >> during the first step Startup this database Import the restored
> >> tablespace At this point, theoratically one can start rebuilding
> >> indexes/re-enabling constraints.
> >> Just to stay on the safe side, an extra tablespace was created and
> > all
> >> objects in the restored tablespace were moved to this tablespace.
> >> Transportable tablespaces come with some bugs, and we wouldn't risk
> > to
> >> hit anyone of them. After moving all objects (inlcuding some LOB's)
> >> indexes were recreated an constraints enabled.
> >>
> >> Everything is fine now.
> >>
> >> Remark: The tablespace that was dropped wasn't hit by any objects
> > for
> >> several days before the backup was made.
> >>
> >> This case illustratetes my opinion that, from the view of a DBA,
> > 'EVERY
> >> DATABASE IS A PRODUCTION DATABASE'. Excepth maybe the test-thing on
> > your
> >> laptop/desktop.
> >>
> >> The argument, that a database (or DWH in this case) hasn't reached
> >> production state yet is stupid. What have the consultants, setting
> > up
> >> the database for over three months been doing then? Is development
> > no
> >> production? Lack of time to implement a backup-procedure is no
> > excuse.
> >> Maybe it is for the DBA, but it isn't for his manager.
> >>
> >> They've learned their lesson. They called in a consultant to
> > implement
> >> the backup rightaway.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regarding READONLY databases, please read also Connor McDonalds note
> >> about slow readonly at www.oracledba.co.uk, look under
> > Administration,
> >> the note is from 14/06/2002
> >>
> >> Regards, Carel-Jan
> >>
> >> ===
> >> If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
> >> ===
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is
> >> theoretically possible to get a good backup on a quiet but open
> >> database
> >> with just a cold backup, but not the sort of thing you want to bet
> > your
> >> job
> >> on. One idea would be for you to take your backup and restore it on
> > a
> >> test
> >> system. It is always a good practice to test your database restore
> >> anyway.
> >> Then you would be assured throughout the year that you do indeed
> > have
> >> a
> >> valid backup. But I would do it each year since there might be some
> >> condition that would make the backup succeed 50% of the time, you
> > would
> >> be
> >> covered all the time.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Williams
> >> DBA
> >> Lifetouch, Inc.
> >> dwilliams@lifetouch.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On
> >> Behalf Of Gene Sais
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:12 AM
> >> To: oracle-l@freelists.org; DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >> Subject: RE: Archive Mode On for Read Only DB
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis - The database is opened in read only mode.  The database
> >> changes
> >> once a yr to be updated w/ new images.  At that time, I put the db
> > in
> >> read
> >> write mode, add the images, then open db in read only and back it up
> >> while
> >> db is open.  It is a web query db that I would like to minimize down
> >> time.
> >> Is there any benefit to putting this db in archive log mode?  I
> > don't
> >> see
> >> any, but I may be missing something :).
> >>
> >> Thanks for your help,
> >> Gene
> >>
> >>>>> DWILLIAMS@LIFETOUCH.COM 3/3/2004 10:47:26 AM >>>
> >>
> >> Gene - By read only, do you mean the contents of the database are
> >> never
> >> changing? Do you ever take it out of read only mode, like to change
> >> something? Why back it up occasionally? Just do a cold backup once
> > and
> >> save
> >> the tapes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Williams
> >> DBA
> >> Lifetouch, Inc.
> >> dwilliams@lifetouch.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org [
> >> mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On
> >> <mailto:oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org]On>
> >> Behalf Of Gene Sais
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:04 AM
> >> To: oracle-l@freelists.org
> >> Subject: Archive Mode On for Read Only DB
> >>
> >>
> >> I have an 8i read only database that is used for query of images.
> >> Occassionally, I back it up using OS utilities (cp, tar, TSM, etc)
> >> while the
> >> db is open.
> >>
> >> Question: Is there any benefit to having this db in archive log
> > mode?
> >> Since
> >> it is in read only mode, I see no benefit or am I missing something?
> >>
> >> Thanks for any insight you may provide,
> >> Gene
> >>
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